Deep in their heavily guarded bunker in Kyiv, boxing legends Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko allow themselves time out for some, strictly verbal, sparring.
The brothers have not seen each other for a few days, and Wladimir chuckles as he tells us: “To be honest, I’ve been glad of the break.”
It’s a lighthearted moment in a deeply serious interview, the first that mayor of Kyiv Vitali, 50, and Wladimir, 46, chief of Ukraine ’s Territorial Army, have given together.
They have become heroes in the fight against President Vladimir Putin ’s invasion, even though their own mother is Russian.
In the exclusive interview with the Mirror, Vitali tells us: “Russians were once thought of as our brothers. And I have always been taught that you must never fight your brother.
“Our mum said Wladimir and I must never do that, and we never did in our boxing careers, even though that would have been worth many millions of pounds.
“Even today I will not pose for you together with him raising our fists – even just for a photo.
“We are half Russian – our mum is Russian so how can I hate Russians? I just hate what Putin is doing. Putin is not just evil, he is mentally sick, a coward, pretending to be macho to hide his weakness.”
Wladimir believes the Russians will try to capture Kyiv again.
He tells us: “The situation is very fragile, and we can feel it.
“Sirens still go on and off, and Russian rockets are flying all over the place around Ukraine.
“I’m convinced Kyiv is the ultimate target of the invasion. Putin is like a food addict, the more he eats, the more his appetite grows.”
Vitali believes Putin’s aim is to take Russia back to the Soviet era.
He says: “Putin is caught in the past, trying to take the world back 50 years when the Soviets put up an Iron Curtain and fought the Cold War.
“It cannot succeed in the 21st century when people are so connected through social media and travel.
“Putin is playing macho. Inside, though, he was always weak, but wanting to play the ‘strongman’.
“He has to be sick to take this crazy decision to destroy the lives of millions of people. It comes from some sick idea to rebuild the world.
“But he can’t. The world is so global. It’s long past the time when you could fight to grab land, and to make propaganda, like 50 years ago in Soviet times.
“He is a person from the past. And he brings big tragedy to Russian people as well.”
Vitali tells of his “difficult decision” to dismantle the Arch of Friendship, a structure gifted to Ukraine by the Soviet government in 1982 as a symbol of the relationship between the two countries.
Vitali says: “This is not the time to pretend we are friends. They have destroyed the lives of millions of Ukrainians, and damaged the world’s food and its security.”
But he is confident Ukraine will prevail. Vitali says: “It will be a difficult battle. We stand in front of one of the strongest armies in the world. Yet we are so successful because this is our home city, it’s our home, and the future of our children – the Russian army fights for the money.”
He and his brother were heavyweight champions and Vitali says boxing and his “passion” for chess have taught him how to win the war. He says: “You need to be calm, and choose the right people in your team. I’m finding that people who act macho often turn out weak, and apparently insignificant ‘skinny’ people turn out to be lions.” He pauses for a few seconds to collect his thoughts on the past four months.
Then, he says quietly: “This war has driven me to tears at least twice.
“Firstly, when I went to our train station and found a group of children about to be evacuated. One of them, aged five, from Bucha, was desperately asking about his mum and dad.
A man who had been looking after them said, ‘I cannot tell him yet that the Russians have killed both of them’. Secondly, a boy from Latvia, sent us a cookie jar filled with coins – his entire life ‘savings’ – and said that we should spend it on the Ukrainian children hurt by the war.
“I gave a charity 100 dollars and am keeping the jar and coins to show people. I’m inviting that boy to come as my guest to Kyiv as soon as the war ends. Please help me find him.
“I’d love it if British kids also want to send us some coins.”
Wladimir chips in: “Once we’ve won the war we’ll get heavily into rebuilding the country. But I do dream of just a few days of golf. I’d love to play in the pro-am at the Alfred Dunhill event in Scotland. All my winnings will go to our charity, of course.”
As he leaves us to go to another engagement, Wladimir says: “Whatever my brother says, I agree.”
Vitali then tells us: “The West does not understand a very important point – we are fighting for you.
“Some countries in Europe get it. When I speak to Estonia, Latvia, Poland, they say, ‘We understand. You are fighting for us’.
“But others disappoint us. Not Britain, though. It is leading the way and we are so, so grateful.”
He speaks about his love of the UK – and for its fish and chips.
Vitali says: “When the war is over we will come again and British people will be welcome here in Kyiv.”
“I promise there won’t be any sandbags or barbed wire then.”